My “holy grail” in Cheesemaking is to make soft washed rine cheeses in the style of Epoisses.  I have one batch of muenster going at the moment.  think some of the process should be similar at least in regards to early development and orange bacteria (B. Linens).  I just waxed these without too much success with the bacteria showing.  I have also done a Cammbert like version with B. Linens and have been washing it every other day with Marc (de Champaigne in this case - only Marc I could find in Singapore).  Results do not look promising (despite an interesting aroma).

I have expermented with very slow rennetting (18, 12, 6 hours) as indicated by some of the research that I have done.  I have had no success with this (always gave me sour very weak curds that did not look healthy enough to work with).  I have recently looked at using a brie recipe and working more on the aging and daily care aspect.  I figure that if I can create a good soft cheese of about 3-4 weeks to maturity, I can refine the curd making after getting this nearer the goal (and at least have something edible to show for my work).

I am thinking it may require a closed, very high humudity environment for bacteria growth and a rather cold ~45f environment. Perhaps I will try the plastic boxes that I use for growing bloomy camemberts.  Has anyone had any experience in trying for this style of cheese? If so any pointers would be appreciated.

I have cheese making logs and notes of several attempts and so far only a couple of funky muensters and some hard as hockey pucks (yet smelly) disks that I am sure are not the consistancy I am looking for.

If any one is interested in collaberating on making this kind of chesse I would welcome sharing the logs of my failures as well.

Thanks,

Gerrit

Im interested in trying this again, my most successful was my “Gorgonzola” recipe that turned orange. I thingk that will work by just using a regular bloom recipe.

I have been trying to make this cheese for a few months.  You can see a pic of one of my attempts (probably my closest so far) in the “New Year’s Eve Cheeses” topic I just posted today.  If you search “epoisses” in this forum, there is also an earlier thread that has the rudiments of a recipe.

I had thought, like you, that perhaps a higher humidity was necessary to make this cheese work.  I have two rounds in process and what I have found is that does not seem to be the case.  They do not seem to be able to form a rind, and they are difficult to handle when washing.  I have moved them to an area of lower humidity to see where it goes.

My attempts have all been lactic ripened for 16-18 hours with just a tiny bit of rennet to fom a soft curd.  From what I have been able to find, the curd is cut coarsely (I saw 2” in one reference)  or not at all.  My latest are about 1 week old and just starting to show a blush of pink on the surface.  I did not let these dry as much as my previous efforts, and I am hoping that perhaps they will ripen to a softer texture.

The cheese pictured in my new topic had a flavor that was very much like Epoisses, and it was very creamy, but had a lower moisture and so was not runny.

I will keep you posted on my latest effort.

I have read that “epoisses” (name from town it was made in) is so stinky it has been baned in the past. Thinking of this Im wondering if u followed a Limburger recipe u will get the same result. Limbergers are bathed in salt, if u wash it every day with brine u will end up with the orange rind. If u have it in a moist environment then I dont thingk u will end up with a nice rind. The drying and moisturizing will create that leather rind..

Neil - 06 January 2009 09:06 PM

I have read that “epoisses” (name from town it was made in) is so stinky it has been baned in the past. Thinking of this Im wondering if u followed a Limburger recipe u will get the same result. Limbergers are bathed in salt, if u wash it every day with brine u will end up with the orange rind. If u have it in a moist environment then I dont thingk u will end up with a nice rind. The drying and moisturizing will create that leather rind..

That is the conclusion I have come to also.  I now have it in an environment that is at a lower humidity and I hope that it dries a bit between washings.

Gerrit,

Replying to your post regarding Epoisses in my other thread.

In all of my previous attempts, I tried aging in a plastic box.  I have both my “cheese cave” which is generally around 48 F, and my wine storage, which is usually around 58 F.  At the higher humidity in the box, I was always having to work at inhibiting P candidum and roqueforti.  I started my latest batch that way, and decided tho move to an uncovered box in my 48 F storage to hopefully inhibit the candidum that was starting to bloom again.

I had read in some resource that for this cheese to use salt to help drain whey and keep the cheese in the mold until the moisture content is pretty low.  This results in a raw cheese that is quite friable.  The cheese in my picture was done that way and I think it was too dry.  The texture of the cheese is quite buttery, and the flavor is very good, but I think perhaps there was not enough moisture in the cheese.

My current effort was not so dry to begin with, and we will see how it evolves.  I have done some lactic cheeses ripened with P. candidum, and they have been excellent but the moisture was higher.

Regarding your questions about the lactic curd, your description is quite typical of what I see.  It is cool at night here in Northern California, so I have to take a different approach to maintaining temperature.  I inoculate at 86 F, then preheat my oven to 100F, turn it off, and leave the milk in there to do its thing.  The curd is soft but can be cut.  I think the scum on top is just some fat or other lipids that were not captured in the curd.

I found the following procedure for Epoisse in Patrick Rance’s French cheese book. Looks worth a try.

“The milk arrives at 6;30 a.m. and is allowed about six hours to reach naturally the appropriate degree of acidity, at which point a few drops of rennet are added. The milk is then left to coagulate slowly for twenty to twenty-four hours before the curd is hand-moulded, further drained, and salted by hand. Each cheese needs 2 litres of milk.
The cheeses are weighed for excess humidity and left until the third day before spending twenty-four hours in the sechoir (place where young cheeses are put to dry). From here they are taken to the caves, where they are wiped and washed twice a week with very lightly salted water. After three weeks they begin to turn yellow. Brevibacterium linens is attracted to the surface of the cheese and encourage by the washing, reddening the crust. In the final stages the cheeses are washed two or three times a week in marc. They are too fragile for any machine treatment.” Patrick Rance, The French Cheese Book pa. 349-350

Oude Kaas,

Thanks I will give it a try this weekend.  I also found a used copy of the Patrick Rance book on Amazon.  I ordered it as it seems to be a great reference.

Gerrit

Oude,

Thank you for the very interesting information.  I also will have to find a copy of that book.