As far as a recipe book, the only one I currently have is Ricki Carroll’s book.  Its OK, as far as it goes; but there aren’t too many cheeses in it.  A lot of soft cheese, and some goat’s milk cheese.  But for hard cheeses, just a few basics.  She needs to come out with a volume 2.

Likesspace - 17 February 2009 11:38 PM

Tom, great to hear from you again. How was your holiday?
Also, thanks for the link.
When I emailed New England Cheese Making Supply, they recommended the exact same book. I think I’ll have to wait until my wife isn’t looking and get that one ordered.
If you could help me with something else, I would very much appreciate it..
Today I emailed Egon at Danlac and asked about his recipes (thanks to Neil for mentioning this).
He quickly responded by emailing me 5 different recipes that I had been looking for.
The only problem is that these recipes do not give target Ph readings but instead show the percentage of acidity at various steps.
For instance, my recipe for cheddar gives the final Ph at 5.3 - 5.4.
His recipe gives the final acidity at 0.675 - 0.685.
My question is if there is any correlation between Ph and % of acidity.
Please keep in mind that I earn my living managing others….I do NOT have a scientific mind and many of the technical articles I’ve looked at lose me in the first few sentences.
I really appreciate everyone’s posts/advice on this subject.
And I do agree that understanding the process of cheesemaking is very important to success.

Dave

Hi Dave.  I’m still out and about…we are on Kauai for another 10 days or so.  I am feeling a bit of cheese making withdrawal.  I am hoping that the cheeses I left at home will be OK when I get back.

BTW, my first cheesemaking book was Making Artisan Cheese by Tim Smith that I mentioned in a previous post.  It has a much more interesting (for me) selection of recipes than Ricki Carroll’s book, and some good ancillary information.  I have since also acquired Ricki Carroll’s book because I think it is probably better as a beginner book and I have a lot of folks locally asking me to help them get started.

Getting to your pH vs. acidity question, it is not a simple one.  The easiest way to think about it is that a total acidity measurement measures the total quantity of acid, expressed as equivalent grams/liter of lactic acid (because lactic acid should be the predominant acid when you are making cheese.)  pH on the other hand is a measure of the strength of the acid.  Different acids have different strength.  For example, hydrochloric acid is a much stronger acid than lactic acid, so 1 gram/liter of hydrochloric acid would result in a much lower pH than 1 gram/liter of lactic acid.  The total acidity would be the same.  Hope that makes sense.

There is probably reasonable correlation between pH and acidity in cheesemaking, since the lactic acid will predonminate for cheeses where a lot of ripening takes place.

Getting to your question regarding the “final pH” or “final acidity” of your cheddar, it is important that you are talking about the same “final”.  I have not made cheddar (yet), but it is my understanding from what I have read that the pH of 5.3-5.4 is associated with the completion of the cheddaring prior to milling the curds.  Again, based on what I have read, the acidity at that time would be expected to be around 0.6.  What you may not understand, is that the bacteria will contine to convert lactose during and after pressing, and the final pH of the cheddar will end up closer to 5.0 which I would expect to correspond to the higher acidity you refer to of 0.675 or so.

The pH change with a cheese like Camembert is even more striking, where it is molded at a pH of 6.2 or so but as the curds compress and the cheese is flipped the pH will drop below 5.0, maybe to the 4.6-4.8 range.  This is important because the candidum needs a lower pH to proliferate.  Washed rind cheeses need to be closer to 5.5 in order for B. linens to thrive.  I dug a lot of this up when I was struggling to make an Epoisses like cheese.  It is tricky because it starts with a lactic curd that is very acidic and the affinage has to get the pH up on the surface of the cheese for B linens to grow.  I haven’t figured it all out yet, but I think I am getting closer.  I will know whether or not I have made progress when I see my latest attempts when I get home.

I have the American Farmstead Cheese book with me and I am reading it again on vacation.  I think it is a great resource, and Amazon does have a deal on it now.  They also have a combo deal on that book bundled with Ricki Carroll’s and Tim Smith’s.  If you could manage it I would highly recommend that bundle.  I have yet to find any cheese making book that is complete, but those three together contain a lot of information.

Tom…
Thanks for the response!
You actually wrote this information in a way that I can understand it and I do appreciate the effort.
I think for right now I’m going to stick with taking Ph reading and wait on going to TA route. It seems that a Ph meter is an easier way of doing things and many of the recipes I’ve found do work off of Ph instead of TA.
Even for those recipes that do only list TA readings, I think I can probably muddle my way through them and create my own process of defining benchmarks. My main goal is to make good cheese which I’m sure will come through trial and error and keeping good records of the process.
Thanks again for the post and the information. It was very helpful.

Dave

if you have a look at the cheeselinks website. neil and carole’s book home cheesemaking lists all the ph levels at each stage of their recipes

? I have Carroll’s home cheese making, their are no PH readings and PH is only briefly mentioned on page 62.

Well, it took me a week, but I got a significant block of time today and made a traditional cheddar, as I mentioned above.  It is definitely a time consumer - 7 hours to get it in the press.  But its a fun process, and the curd is fantastic.  You could, if you wanted to, stop after the salting of the curd and just start popping them into your mouth.  They’re as solid as some finished cheeses.  In fact I did pop some, and loved it.  The cheese is in the press now with 100 lbs til morning.  Then I’m giving it 140 lbs for 24 hours.  I haven’t decided how long to age it - likely in the 6 month range.  So, thanks again, Dave, for the inspiration.

I love munching on cheese curds

Rich,
I’m really happy that you decided to make this.
It is a long process but I agree that it is a very fun cheese to make.
I will admit that my wheel might have been a little bigger had I not decided to sample “one” of the curds after milling. Well that one turned into two and then into three, etc…
I think this is one that I will making a lot in the future.
I really enjoy the process and since cheddar is a favorite in my family it’s one to try and perfect.
We’ve made these really close together so I’m looking forward to cracking them at about the same time and comparing our results.
I’m not sure I’ll hold out for 6 months, but I might give it 4 months or so.
I admit it…..I have patience issues.
Good luck with this one.

Dave

Just turn my cheddar for the last 24 hr press.  I was going to use 140 lbs, but it has knit together so perfectly already that I opted for 110 - closer to recipe wts.  Shall we inspire a Great Traditional Cheddar Press-Off?  Any other takers???

i was having last three days a lot of trouble making a smooth rind to my new wheel cheddar, this was due to not enough press i used 100# only for 6” mold, it must be 140 to 150 #

so i removed the wheel and i put it in 100F (39C) temp water for 2 minutes to warm up the outer rind, and i repress it again, and i ended up with better result, but not 100% close rind

this problem happened to me for two reasons:
1- not enough press power
2- i make traditional cheddar with less moisture to be able to age it 18 months to 24 months

cheers

What about being too cool during initial pressing.

Here’s a pic of my cheddar out of the press.  I’m about to wax it now.  I’m really happy with this one.  It has the best surface I’ve had yet of any cheese.  Its smoother than a baby’s tush.  This one gets a lot of TLC while its aging.  Thanks again, Dave, for the inspiration.  Anyone else up for a traditional cheddar???

Rich, that is not just nice, it is perfect!
I love how thick the wheel is!
I agree..
We need to have a traditional cheddar cook off.
I might just have to make another one (if I ever get through my company audits…..physical inventory…..fiscal year end, etc….).
I’m pulling close to a 70 hour week, this week,  but once Sunday gets here, let the cheesemaking…ummmm…resume.
Rich, honestly that is probably the most perfect looking home cheese I’ve ever laid eyes on. Good luck with the aging.
I know there are some doubters as to the need for the heavier pressing weights, but since I’ve been following this method I’m making the best cheese of my life.
It appears to me that you are seeing the same results.

Dave

Rich…
I just had another thought..
You really should start a thread of your own for this wheel of cheese.
This would be a great chance to inspire others to try this cheese once they see your results.
Also, I’d hate to see that photo get lost within this thread.
That’s one that is just screaming to be “shown off”.

Dave

Another fantastic looking cheese !!