Using floc multiplier has REALLY changed my approach to timing. I am finding that some recipes are WAY off on the desired set time.

For example, last weekend I made a Monterey Jack. The recipe called for 30 minutes set time after rennet or a “clean break”... yada, yada, yada. My floc time was 15 minutes. Using a multiplier of 3 added 45 minutes, so the total set time before cutting curds was 60 minutes - TWICE what the recipe called for.

In fairness to the recipe, I am using a little less rennet to avoid bitter tastes, so my floc times are a little longer. Even so, the recipe was way off.

Sailor Con Queso - 18 August 2009 01:49 AM

In fairness to the recipe, I am using a little less rennet to avoid bitter tastes, so my floc times are a little longer. Even so, the recipe was way off.

This might be an opportunity to rewrite some of the recipes held on the home page of this forum.

I think it means ignore set times in all recipes, or at least take them with a grain of salt. Learn to test for flocculation and use the multiplier method. There are many variables - milk type, pH at rennet time, starter strength, rennet strength, variations in temperature, etc. - that the recipes can’t possibly account for. I am using fresh raw milk that has totally different properties than a pasteurized/homogenized store bought milk. The Floc/Multiplier method will be way more consistent.

Any recipe will change depending on the climate u are in, like cakes/breads etc Mediterranean and Russia will have very diff properties . Just use the recipes as a guideline, the PH is what one needs to watch out for.

I thought I had this all sorted out, but I have discovered a major discrepency in our discussion. I understood that the floc multiplier time is ADDED TO the floc (curdling) time to get the total time after rennet. Example 12 minutes floc with a multiplier of 3 would mean 12 + 36 = 48 minutes from rennet to curd cut.

However,,, This is the way Peter Dixon presents timing in the recipes section of his website

“Check for the curdling time and multiply this times 3 to get the time from adding rennet to cutting the curd, e.g. 12 min. x 3 = 36 min”

This means that the floc multiplier time is the TOTAL set time after rennet. In the above case, that’s a 12 minute difference.

Huh, I was taught and had thought it was added to the flocc time. My cheeses come out tasting as expected, so I never gave it a second thought. I do adjust timing as I go along in the cheesemake to make sure I hit pH targets, though. I’ll adjust a few recipes to use the revised method so I can compare the results. Thanks!

For clarity, I am going refer to Floc Plus Multiplier = Total timing as Floc Plus. I am going to refer to Dixon’s Floc Multiplier = Total time as Curd Total (since he refers to it as curdling time instead of flocculation time). This way we won’t have to keep revisiting the definitions of the 2 methods.

I have now seen the multiplier time referenced both ways. In fact, Peter Dixon is my only source for Curd Total. He does state the same technique in the American Farmstead Cheese book. Here is a link to his website. If you look in the recipes section you will see his Curd Total technique.

http://www.dairyfoodsconsulting.com/

Several of my early cheeses came out to dry for my taste using simple time based technique. I am very pleased with the results that I have been getting using Floc Plus times. As mentioned in an earlier posting, that does seem way off from some of the time-based recipes. However they also tell you to wait extra time for a (subjective) clean break anyway. So if you’re adding time to get a clean break, you’re right back to the Floc Plus times. Some recipes have been very close on the time. I may split the difference between the two (in effect lowering the multiplier) and see what happens. For dry grating cheese like Parmesan, I will probably use Peter’s method, or just reduce the multiplier.

From linuxboy - I do adjust timing as I go along in the cheesemake to make sure I hit pH targets.
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How do you know those pH targets??? Several of you “old” guys, and gals seem to take pH for granted, but at this point in my learning, I feel that pH timing is my biggest knowledge gap. You guys (and gals) talk about target pH values for every cheese. So, I have searched the forum and read old posts extensively, but the fact is there is a TINY bit of info in old posts here (or in the “other” forum). I need more. Feed me, FEED ME.

The ONLY cheese that I have found complete pH target values for is traditional cheddar. Great info on what the target pH is throughout the process. With this info I basically understand how to monitor pH and make timing adjustments during starter ripening, curd set, cooking, draining,.....  However (back to the multiplier discussion) . If my curds are approaching my calculated Floc+ time and my pH has not dropped to target level, which one becomes more important??? Do I cut at the prescribed time or wait until the pH level has been achieved. Same thing with cooking. Here I am cooking for 45 minutes at 102F. I know that the whey should be 6.1 - 6.2. Do I stop cooking early (or cook longer) to hit the pH target or depend on the feel of the cooked curds?

Tonight I am making my first Parmesan, and I have no info at all on target pH values, so I am relegated to simple time based technique. Since I plan on aging this for a year (maybe) I won’t know for months whether I “did good”. I feel that if I have pH values to target, I will make a better, more consistent cheese. Where can I find pH standards for Parmesan and dozens of other cheeses???

It’s very interesting to me that Peter Dixon barely mentions pH values in his recipes except for Cheddar. Am I over thinking this.

I think I posted the general values on the other board. The values are confirmation of visual and sensory indicators for me, and used in combination with heat and time schedules. For example, say I’m making a swiss style cheese and the milk is 6.6. For swiss, you need to drain at 6.4, or the body is not appropriately plastic. That means I need to cut and cook enough to expel the whey quickly, yet retain moisture. That combination requires very little ripening time, a thermo culture, small curd size, high temps, and low multiplier. Say pH had dropped to 6.5 after rennetting and waiting, but the time was not there yet to cut. I would cut.

The above is a bit of an extreme example because there’s no reason pH should drop so much unless the starter amount is too high or the milk is not fresh. But those are the considerations that go through my head. I usually only adjust timing to hit the drain and brine or mill targets. Those are pretty much the same for most cheeses, except swiss types. I drain at 6.2, maybe 6.1 and brine at 5.4.

pH is an important indicator especially at drain time because it directly influences the calcium phosphate remaining in the curd. At high pH, a lot more is left. If you drain at 6 vs 6.2, it makes a pretty big difference in the final cheese in terms of paste, moisture, and flavor.

pH is also important at salting because you don’t want it to overacidify. And the acidification rate/curve is important. That’s why a lot of makers will check pH over and over—to understand the acidification rate, which can vary with starter and milk.

For parmesan, use a small curd size (whisk it a lot), 1x-1.5x multiplier, heal the curd for 5-10 mins, then cook, stirring so curds don’t mat. Drain around 6.2… dry grating cheeses are more forgiving with drain pH, so if it’s 6, that’s not terrible. After you hoop and press, pH should be around 5.2-5.4, and then you brine.

I only used a PH meter recently, the results i usually got was dry crumble, taste real good but did not melt, thats because of the high acid problem. I always went by the curd break though I mostly made bloomed cheese and they like acid. SO It still boils down to practice and make notes. Their are recipes posted on this site, u might try them and compare.

Made Parmesan tonight from 200 Easy Homemade Cheese Recipes. Great example of the discrepancies between the recipes and flocculation method. She calls for waiting 45 minutes after rennet. My flocculation was 12.5 minutes, With the Floc Plus method using a multiplier of 2 would give a total curdling time of 12,5 + 25 = 37.5 minutes, Using Peter Dixon’s Curd Total method, the TOTAL curdling time is just 25 minutes. That’s a 20 minute discrepancy from the recipe. That’s HUGE. Almost a 50% difference in time. I split the difference between the 2 Floc methods and held for 30 minutes. Had a fantastic curd set. Absolutely no reason to go the 45 minutes in the recipe.