This is a great forum! I am so glad I accidentally found this site. I am very new to cheese making, I have always wanted to make cheese, but only recently have found time now that my nest is empty. I have only made mozzarella, and was happy with the results. I have also made squeaky cheese curd, which turned out, especially tasty when battered and deep fried! I was so pleased with myself to make something that I have always bought! My next venture is queso fresco. I need to order some wax and figure out where I can age my cheese, before I try my hand at other cheeses.
Now I was wondering about raw milk, I read somewhere that if using raw milk, the cheese must be aged for no less than 60 days, why is that? I have access to fresh raw milk, I know the quality is the superior.
I have solely used raw milk for 23 years, and my kids were raised on raw milk.
So what the scoop on the 60 days?
Hello Milkmaid and welcome to the forum (love your handle). I too use raw milk exclusively and I love it. Its so far superior to pasteurized, homogenized milk that there is almost no comparison. As I understand it the reason for a minimum of 60 days aging of raw milk cheese is that there MAY be some harmful bacteria in the milk - bacteria that pasteurization would have killed. The aging process, and the development of acid in the cheese acts to kill off that bacteria within 60 days.
Hope you can get your equipment together for some hard cheese making, because you’re going to love it.
I agree with all stated above.
All my cheeses are made from raw milk from a trusted farm. For cheeses consumed within less then 60 days, I pasteurize the milk by heating to 72 deg C and put the vat in ice water to cool to the desired temperature for the specific cheese to be made.
I am against taking such unnecessary risks.
Welcome milkmaid !!!
The enzymes kill any bacteria in the cheese after 60 days, other companies do it 90 days, but 60 is minimum. Their is actually some detailed info that was posted some time ago on this site.
Hey thanks for all your replies and input.
Now is this the same harmful bacteria in the cheese the same as the so called harmful stuff that is supposedly in the raw milk?
Since my milk comes from my own farm, I know the quality is good, should I still be concerned about that bacteria?
Funny thing is, my 18 year old daughter who has always drank raw milk, her stomach gets upset drinking store bought milk, ice cream, and yogurt (certain yogurt she can tolerate), but has no problem with raw milk…. Go figure!
Has anybody eaten their unpasturized cheese before 60 days?
I am a little impatient, I think not so good for this hobby.
Thanks
Milkmaid
PS I love this site… there is so much to read, I started way back on the first pages of the forum, so much to read so little time!
Milkmaid….
First of all, welcome to the forum.
There are many countries that do not have the 60 day wait period for raw milk cheeses but in the United States, this is a requirement.
Most people (at least that I know of) do pasteurize their raw milk before use simply because it is difficult to know that the milk is perfectly “clean”.
Little things like mold on the bedding can contaminate the milk source so in my opinion it is better to err on the side of caution.
Personally I use store bought milk for my cheese simply because I don’t have a source of raw milk.
Although I have eaten cheese at less than 60 days there are a lot of desirable changes that take place during the aging process.
It is my understanding that once the bacteria’s food source is depleted the bacteria die off and are replaced with enzymes which actually mature the cheese and add flavor and texture changes. That’s the main reason it is important to allow your cheese to age…...
I’ve eaten cheeses as young as two weeks and as old as 8 months and as long as the “make” went as planned the aged cheeses are far superior. This is something that I didn’t always understand so basically I’ve cheated myself out of some very nice tasting cheese in the past.
One other thing to keep in mind concerning raw milk…..
There is a good chance that Mesophilic bacteria exists in your raw milk naturally so you can probably use quite a bit less DVI starter culture than most recipes call for.
This is information that would be especially important in swiss and cheddar style cheeses since hitting the proper Ph marks are the key to making these styles.
If you use too much starter the acid development could happen too quickly if this bacteria already exists in your milk. If acid develops too quickly then other steps in the recipe will have to be modified to compensate.
Now this brings up yet another thing that I feel necessary to mention….
If you plan on making cheddar style cheeses then (in my humble opinion) a Ph meter is as necessary as a cooking vat.
I’ve made a few in the past and they nearly always turned out a bit dry, crumbly and bitter. Some batches were better than others and some were worse.
In most cases, if you have a dry, crumbly or bitter cheese this is usually a problem with either temperature control, rennet amounts or mainly Ph errors.
Since I’ve been tracking my Ph information and making a point to hit the marks correctly, I feel that I’m now making the best Cheddar of my life and this season is only beginning. I’m still working on my own cheddar recipe and have constantly been updating it as I learn more about this variety of cheese. So far this year I’ve made one that ......well, sucked…..one that seems to be very very good and one that appears to be fantastic. Of course these cheeses are only 1, 2 & 3 weeks old but I’m sampling as I go to find defects in the make and or recipe.
Each one of these cheeses have been vacuum packed, (in wedges) to see how they mature. I can’t wait to taste the two newest cheeses in 3 to 6 months time.
Anyway, I’m rambling a little now. I hope this information helps you out and again, welcome to the forum. Lot’s of good people on here.
The issue of pasteurisation is not only about spoilage bacteria or moulds. It is also about dangerous bacteria carried by cattle. Examples are Brucellosis (causes abortions) and Tuberculosis (TB) which kills. In countries or areas where these diseases are not eradicated it is very dangerous to drink raw milk or unpasteurised cheeses.
Hey thanks for all your replies and input.
Now is this the same harmful bacteria in the cheese the same as the so called harmful stuff that is supposedly in the raw milk?
Since my milk comes from my own farm, I know the quality is good, should I still be concerned about that bacteria?
Funny thing is, my 18 year old daughter who has always drank raw milk, her stomach gets upset drinking store bought milk, ice cream, and yogurt (certain yogurt she can tolerate), but has no problem with raw milk…. Go figure!
Has anybody eaten their unpasturized cheese before 60 days?
I am a little impatient, I think not so good for this hobby.
Thanks
Milkmaid
PS I love this site… there is so much to read, I started way back on the first pages of the forum, so much to read so little time!
i eat my fresh cheeses (mozzarella) on same day, and i do not pasteurize
Here in The Netherlands in the neighbourhood of Gouda, most cheese producing farmers do not pasturize the milk before making cheese. Young Gouda cheese is eaten here just after 4 weeks and to be honest, I never heard of the period of 60 days, although I can imagine that with aging the bacteria will die, because of the changing acids in the cheese.
The only restriction I have is that I warn women that the cheese is made from unpasturized milk which MIGHT be dangerous for pregnant ladies.
Neil, I don’t know what the regs are in Canada; but here in the US the 60 days is a figure set by the government. As is always the case, the government wants to be involved with regulating everything. Their regs will account for worst case scenarios. Personally, I feel that if you know your source, and you are careful in your handling of the raw milk, there is little or no danger involved.
Basically Raw milk is not allowed to be sold but Raw Milk Cheese is allowed.
I agree with u Rich in that Milk is no different then any restaurant, if its kept clean then no problem. Lots of people are dieing from Ecoli in vegetables these days. The Gov are not saying to pasteurize the veggies.
By the way Herman, I understand that only the low end cheese gets exported to other countries. the good stuff is kept in house lol.
Well Neil, that depends on the definition of “low end cheese”
Due to regulations of the European Community, and I’m pretty sure also regulations in the importing countries, only cheeses made from pasteurized milk is exported. Most of the times that will be cheese from the cheese factories.
Is this always “low end cheese”? Absolutely not.
But a lot of cheese that is sold as Gouda in the US and Canada, will come from Germany or Denmark. And despite there are cheese factories in Germany, that country is one of the bigger importers of cheese from Holland (aka The Netherlands), because the Germans like our Gouda better.
By the way: Somewhere on this forum I found a link to an advertisement of Arla who claim to make Gouda-like cheeses. I noticed the shiny surface of the cheeses and I’m pretty sure they use the same kind of coating that I use….
The picture is from http://www.lekkerkerker.nl (site is also in English, they make diary equipment), made in a factory that uses 6000 liters of milk a day.
