Hello all,
I am new to cheese making, out of Florida. I used to brew beer years back but gave it up when I moved here. Recently decided to engage again with something and came across cheese making. It was not difficult to get interested as I love cheese.
I think I have queso fresco in the range, family loves it. But this has not been without some misses by trying to get the process more consistent. Fortunately, in most of the tries I have managed to get the curd back into some form and still edible with varying textures. I am listing below a few areas where I need help and appreciate feedback/suggestions. I have three objectives for now, 1) Queso de hoja, 2) Some cheddar (I used to have a mild cheddar - called “queso de papa” which one would let sweat at room temperature for about 4-6 hours and it will break in greasy tasty flakes), and 3) some strong flavored hard aged one (not sure yet which one).
Objective #1: Queso de Hoja
I would like to create “Queso de hoja”, my favorite, a very common cheese in the northwest of Puerto Rico. I found some recipe that reads about cutting the curd (no instructions on how to prepare up to this point) into 2x6 blocks followed by cooking at 150 degrees to cause a skin on the outside. Then this has to be pressed on a flat surface in order to salt and fold, giving the layered (hoja) texture. I guess it must have something in common with string mozzarella.
Now, my first problem is how to get the curd in a shape and strength that it can be managed as a block without breaking into pieces when I pull or try to slide it out of the pot. I use store whole milk, not ultra, and even tried reinforcing with CaCl but not luck somehow it still comes out very yogurt/jelly like…. I am still not clear if my problem is milk coagulation related or temperature related, maybe need more temp or time. Also, on the temperature side, if I have to get into 150 should I just pour hot water into hte pot instead of pulling the curd out of it?
First thing is to experiment with the milk types u can get and see how they set. (I use 2% and reinforce with 10-18% milk).
Make sure the rennet is good and u are using the proper amount.
Get a PH meter so u know whats going on with the curds.
Working on it…just tired different whole milks and liquid rennet and the best one to set was organic, however, my queso fresco tasted acidic like about to go sour.
So too many variables, going back to basics…queso fresco to ensure I can consistently get same taste.
Question: I got an aquiarium quality PH meter. Does this work on milk or just water?
Hi Luis, welcome to the forum. I’m not using a PH meter, but to my knowledge you can use it for water and for milk, just be sure the probe is clean and calibrate the PH meter in advance.
A couple of additional things: First, you’re going to need to know what pH marks to look for. I can’t help you there, because I have no knowledge of this particular cheese. But just testing the pH will do no good unless you know where it should be. Secondly, when you do a pH test, take a sample of the whey and test it seperately. That way you don’t have to worry about contaminating your batch accidentally. Now, once you find out the correct pH marks, you should be able to get a handle on the correct consistency of the curd. pH is a very accurate indicator of where your cheese is at. Wish I could help further. Keep us posted and welcome Luis.
Thanks! That might explain why some of my recent trials went so bad….contamination. Will do separate and look for Ph reference.
I am placing anything else on hold until I can control this queso fresco over and over….then will engage again in looking after queso de hoja. I have a few friends on the island looking for the receipe.
And the saga continues…got new rennet tablets and ensure not to mess it up with the ph meter. Now, got something edible but still tasted acidic.
Question is…for queso fresco where the curd needs to cook from 90F to 95F in no less than 20 mins, is there a problem if I take longer to bring the curd up? I am using a water bath and it takes a while for the curd to raise temp. I am sure that if scold the bath then it might react faster.
No, unless u have a commercial steamer cauldron its rare to get it spot on. Most of us are using kitchen stove and its hard for it to not either go too fast or too slow.
DO the finger test on the curd, to test if its firm or not, to see if its ready.
I make mine in the kitchen sink. I put the water in the sink 10 degrees hotter than target temp and check every 5 minutes and write temp on the dry erase board on the refrigerator. If it is raising too fast I take the pot out of the sink and sit it on the counter for 5 minutes and then put it back in the sink. If it is not heating fast enough I add some boiling water. It took me awhile to get the process to heating 2 degrees every 5 minutes, but I’ve got it going now.
I agree with Tammy, it’s a matter of experience. I’m using a 27 liter electric heated cauldron but the inbuild thermostate is not ment for making cheese and is far from accurate. So I learned to raise the temperature by switching the power on and off, watching my digital thermometer and it’s inbuild clock. And then it is again depending on the amount of milk or curd you are heating. I hope to turn this someday into a decent computer program and a micro processor controlled heating….And add a micro processor controlled stirrer (lol).
Sounds ambitious Herman. But you would be taking most of the human element out of the process and getting really close to commercial processing.
I, too , use my kitchen sink and a 5 gallon thin walled stainless steel stock pot. My water heater is set for 130 degrees; so it’s easy to just add a bit more hot water when necessary to keep the water temp about 15 to 20 degrees hotter than the curd - removing some water each time to make room for the warmer water additions. If things get too hot, I can just add some cold water instead. And, of course, I use two thermometers - one in the water and one in the curd, so there is no cross contamination.
And Luis, in answer to another of your questions, no, I don’t think heating too slowly would be much of a problem. It’s heating too quickly that hurts the curd.
Thanks to all, very interesting. I use the sink with an inmersible water pump to keep it constant and a heater with a controller. I have managed to raise and work through the difference, it just takes a bit longer to raise due to the low watts of the heater. I can always add hot water, which I plan to…that is how I start from cold to the first temp break.
I just got back my queso fresco on taste, unfortunately, still cant tell what went wrong other than contamination from ph meter or too fast temp. Will do this one a few more times to ensure I have the process in place and begin practicing the finger test and measuring ph (on the side).
I am anxious to taste a cheddar made about 3 weeks ago…plan to break it on the 8th.
Currentlly planning to do a manchego and then start the adventure towards “queso de hoja”.
@Rich: (LOL) Ambitious? I’m only trying to make a good cheese. Close to commercial? I’m making a batch of cheese from a maximum of 6 gallons of milk every couple of weeks, only during the weekends, without even using equipment like PH-meters. Lazy I call it! Stirring milk and curds for more than 3 hours is a human element of processing I would love to let a machine do. Are you using a power drill, a powered screwdriver or an electric saw? But does that make you a carpenter? I use raw milk, estimate the volumes of ingredients using a set of spoons and estimate the times to take steps in the process by gut feeling, smell, taste and experience and that I call artisan cheese making…
Herman: Don’t be offended. I wasn’t criticising, just teasing. And yes, I do use a power drill and a power saw; and yes when I do so I DO consider myself a carpenter. And speaking of weekends, I would really like to have more weekends available for cheese makng. I find I’m working too many of them. Ah well, retirement beckons!
I’m absolutely not offended, that’s why I started with “(LOL)”! I enjoy this kind of teasing discussions! Last weekend I had to repair my roofs gutter (no, I don’t consider myself a plummer, lol!) and I hope to make this weekend a batch of cumin cheese, not really the Leiden, because that one is made from skimmed milk and I will use raw whole milk…
