background: this is the second cheddar i’ve made. the first one came out quite well (was devoured by a group of pals over the course of thanksgiving weekend), but this one suffered big fluctuations in temperature due to shenanigans with my first cheese fridge, anywhere between 40F-65F over the course of 2-3 days.
it uses vegetarian rennet, which i understand can result in sour/bitter taste if aged at low temperatures. my cheese fridge is now stable at 50-55F, and 60-80% humidity depending on whether i have a glass of water in there or not.
do you think that if i re-wax it (in halves, maybe) and age it a couple more months or longer, the taste might develop? i’m wondering if the low temp it suffered killed off any bacteria, etc.
i would be very grateful for your advice/opinions.
Sounds like u have an excess of acid. It will probably take more then a couple of months for the taste to mellow, probably at least 6-12 months. How big is it? if its a a couple lbs for half then maybe rewax it and hide it for 6 months. Cant hurt to just make more, and use what u have in some cooking dishes
what do you think is the cause of the excess acid? would the low temp or temperature fluctuations be (partly) responsible? or do you think it just didn’t get drained or pressed well enough? it was the last cheese i pressed in the cheapie ‘hard cheese kit’ basket i started out with, and i may not have balanced enough weight on top of it:
Acid is normally from prolonged activity of the culture (it creates acid(lower PH) for the rennet to react too)
I cracked my 2.5 year old guhda that was crumbly when i made it, it now had changed to be meltable and mild. Its that old because it was forgot about in the back of the fridge LOL
I had a similar problem with a Pepper Jack. It looked good, tasted fine when young, but after ageing for a few months developed a sour taste. I decided it was too much moisture, caused by cooking too quickly after cutting, this in effect ‘case hardens’ the curds and retains whey.
In the end I chucked it as inedible. Keep us posted, will be interested if you do age it to see if it improves.
i am confused—this cheese is only 8 weeks old. if i age it longer, won’t it get *more* bitter/sour, given this premise?
when you say ‘prolonged activity of the culture’, when is this happening? during the cheesemaking/curd heating/holding process, or also during the aging process?
in any case, i am going to wax the ~1lb halves and see what happens :)
I’m gonna throw another idea out for consideration. It may not be a case of over acidity at all. Especially since its only 8 weeks old. I had a similar problem with my early cheeses - a bitter after taste. I think the problem was improper sanitation procedures. You have to sterilize absolutely everything that might come in contact with your milk/cheese; as well as anything that might come into contact with your hands and then be passed on to your milk/cheese. I now even sterilize the outside of my milk bottles prior to pouring into the pot. Once I got more rigorous with sanitation, I got better cheeses - consistently.
“Coagulation: The distinguishing characteristic of these varieties is that coagulation is achieved by acidification to pH 4.6 - 4.8, with little or no coagulating enzyme. Acidification is normally by lactic acid producing cultures. Most other American and European cheese varieties also use lactic acid producing cultures, but gelation is induced by a coagulating enzyme at pH 6.5 - 6.7, before much acid development has taken place.”
I’m gonna throw another idea out for consideration. It may not be a case of over acidity at all. Especially since its only 8 weeks old. I had a similar problem with my early cheeses - a bitter after taste. I think the problem was improper sanitation procedures. You have to sterilize absolutely everything that might come in contact with your milk/cheese; as well as anything that might come into contact with your hands and then be passed on to your milk/cheese. I now even sterilize the outside of my milk bottles prior to pouring into the pot. Once I got more rigorous with sanitation, I got better cheeses - consistently.
i guess i will bust out the star san, then—my boyfriend brews beer, so he has this on hand.
Pie,
Starsan is a fantastic product which I use exclusively.
Having said that, I will say that I feel your problem is most likely due to excessive acid production, IF, you have been practicing good hygiene procedures all along.
Rich is correct in saying that hygiene is imperitive in cheese making but in the home environment it is difficult, (if not impossible), to duplicate a lab environment. Because of that we do what we can to make as sterile of a cheese make, as possible.
Rich has offered very good advice concerning this issue but as I said before, I do feel that over acidification is your main problem.
If you allow the culture to work for too long, (too long of a ripening period, or too long before draining, salting or pressing), you will end up with a dry, crumbly, bitter tasting cheese.
On the other hand, if you drain when your cheese hits the proper Ph level, (which is the most important Ph marker), and begin pressing at the proper Ph marker, (which is the second most important Ph marker), then you are pretty much guaranteed a nice, elastic, good tasting final product.
I’ve been making cheese for about 4 years and have just now figured out the importance of charting Ph markers during a make.
I am in no way taking away from Rich’s advice concerning sanitation since this is equally important, (if not more so), from a health standpoint. I’ve simply found that, as far as taste and texture goes, Ph is the key.
As for further aging…..
Ph will increase as a cheese ages.
If your finished Ph is in the 5.0 - 5.1 range then the cheese should be really nice within a few months, (3 - 6 months).
If your finished Ph has dropped into the 4.5 - 4.9 range, then it could take as long as 3 years before the cheese Ph reaches a level where the cheese has the proper taste and texture, and it’s entirely possible that it will never recover.
Because of this, I recommend that everyone should use a Ph meter when making cheese.
Why wait 3 years to POSSIBLY have an edible cheese when you can have a great cheese simply by hitting the Ph markers correctly, within a couple of months?
A good friend said it best:
You don’t heat your milk for a certain amount of TIME and feel confident that you have hit the right temperature for a certain type of cheese. Instead you use a thermometer to KNOW that you have hit the right temperature.
In the same way, it is impossible to ripen the milk for a certain amount of time and know that you have hit the proper Ph level that is required for a certain type of cheese.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again….I feel that a Ph meter is as critical as a spoon when it comes to making cheese. I simply will not make a cheese without one.
Sorry to get on a soapbox, but I sincerely hope this information helps you out.
well, you totally convinced me :). i just ordered a ph meter and calibration solution.
—but i’m also going to fill my cheesemaking pot with 3 gallons of diluted star san and drop all my stuff in it before i make cheese from now on, rather than just relying on scalding hot water and soap.
nothing wrong with hedging my bets :)
thank you all very much for the advice and suggestions!
Pie..
As for using Starsan, I usually keep a 5 gallon bucket, (with a good seal), mixed up at all times. For the small items, (measuring spoons, knives, molds, etc.), I simply dump them in for a few minutes and then rinse under warm water before use.
For the larger items I keep a spray bottle of Starsan, mixed up, to spray the items before use. As for my cheese pot, I still use the boiling water method which seems to work really well.
The manufacturer of Starsan has stated that 30 seconds of contact time will kill any pathogen known to man, but he still recommends a contact time of 3 minutes, just to be certain. He has also stated that as long as the solution has a Ph of below 3.0 the solution is still active.
I actually only refresh my solution if the mixture gets cloudy or if the Ph rises into the 3.0 range. I’ve kept a Starsan solution going for a couple of years with no need to refresh.
Starsan is relatively inexpensive but I still try to make it last as long as possible.
As of right now I have well over half of a bottle left after 3 years. Considering that this bottle only cost me $15.00, that makes it quite a bargain.
I’m not going to knock the over acidificationists - because its a truism. However, in this case - if you have in fact been using only hot water and soap - I’m thinking the bitter taste is definately due to an unwanted organism that has contaminated your process somewhere along the way. Overly acid cheese would be excessively sharp in flavor; but should not be bitter. It will also result in a crumbly texture. I’ve had struggles with the bitterness issue, and its definately not a cheese taste.
Some added hints to what Dave mentioned above: If you’re using a hot water bath system be sure you use two thermometers instead of moving one back and forth. Also, sanitize your water recepticle, be it a larger pot or a sink; as well as the faucet and water handles, counter tops, stove top - basically everything that will touch you or your milk.
well, for the bries i am making today (‘cause i think the 2 i made a few weeks ago just got too cold/dried out during the cheese fridge shenanigans) will have the benefit of my having star san-ned everything. i’m taking this advice seriously, guys :)
